JEM Watercraft

Mick,

I think you might have missed read the tone of Chuck's post. I 'm pretty sure he was just "pulling your chain," notice his use of "smilies" in his post. He likes to hide his intellectual light under a basket to lure you into a false sense of security, then throw the basket off when you least expect it, blinding you with his brilliance!

Looking at Freedom's lines, I'd say that it isn't actually as much of a flat-bottom boat as a pirogue is. Some of Matt's other designs approximate a more rounded bottom with multiple chines more closely than Freedom, like his Northwind. But Freedom does appear to have something of a "semi-rounded" hull, when compared to a pirogue. More so when it's loaded down enough to submerge the panels between the top side panel and the very bottom panels. When the boat is healed over just a bit, that chine would also be in the water, making in act more like what you are thinking a V bottom should do.

In fact, if the Southwind 15-30 design isn't going to be published in the next week or so, I may well build the Freedom 15 first. After my wife's first trip on the Pirogue, she's hooked on paddling and now understands that having her own boat would work out better than a tandem.

I'd planned on building that Southwind first, but the "building bug" is starting to seriously chew my backside up! I still want Soutwind (the version I've been bugging Matt about,) for myself, and I'm now convinced that Freedom would be a good choice for her.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

FlaMike wrote:Mick,

I think you might have missed read the tone of Chuck's post. I 'm pretty sure he was just "pulling your chain," notice his use of "smilies" in his post. He likes to hide his intellectual light under a basket to lure you into a false sense of security, then throw the basket off when you least expect it, blinding you with his brilliance!

I am Humbled , someone understands me and is even a better BS'er then I am.

The X-Champ ... Chuck.

Guys
I started this hoedown and I'll get back into the middle of it. My thoughts on Matts boats are this, they are designed to fit a certain criteria. and
we are all saying this in different way,
Mick does a lot more big water where he has surf big waves even breakers at times and the southwind is awesome at this,but like Chuck myself jh we are mainly flat water 2 ft waves are huge stumps and log crossing is normal and the difference in a 2 inch draft and a 3 inch draft is walking in mud( have never seen a pic of Mick in the brush) And now there is JACK as bad as I hate to say it his round bottom yaks fit his country , crossing big lakes where you need to handle rough water and have the speed, He likes these round bottoms so much he even has a Eskimo roll perfected to exit the boat where in the Freedom I just pull up and step out.
I ask the above question picking on the knoleedge of the group,ya'll have to remember I have been in the yaks less than a year so asking is the only way I know of learning.
Ron

G'day guys, and thanks

With our (slightly) different cultures it is sometimes a little difficult to tell when somebody is kidding - or not. Rather than take the risk of offending somebody who i consider to be a friend, i tried to mke my position clear.

Here are some of my thoughts on paddlecraft design.

Pirogues with their flat bottoms seem to be designed for optimum performance in very shallow water and are designed to skim over the water surface as much as possible. They do this very well, but at the expense of tracking and secondary stability. - significant wind signature

Canoes are designed mostly with immense load carrying capacity and semi-rounded bottoms. There is an increase in tracking and secondary stability but they require more water depth in which to float. Generally, they are not intended to skim over the water surface so much as a pirogue. significant wind signature

Kayaks, generally are narrower and with less volume than either a pirogue or canoe. They sit lower in the water and are intended to part through the water like a spear. They require less effort to make them go forward and have minimal wind signature and are subsequently a faster boat. Generally, kayaks incorporate a shallow V bottom into their design or evn a rounded bottom and this imparts immense secondary stability. (a very good thing in rough water) All this is achieved through reduced load capacity.

There are exceptions to these of course, and Freedom seems to be one of them, with its flat bottom combined with the second panels, it should be pretty close to the best of both worlds.

Freedom (as she is) has been tormenting me ever since Chuck built the prototype. I love the lines of this boat.

The more I think about it, the more inclined I am to think that this might be a very good kayak for my conditions here. I no longer paddle in surf (unless it is small) and I fish from all of my boats. Primary stability is very important to me when fishing.

I have a couple of canoes and another Laker I need to build first anyway and who knows what other great boat matt will come up with in the meantime?

I'd be willing to bet that, if we could somehow assemble all the boats - canoe, kayak, pirogue, etc. - ever built over the last 5,000 years, we would make an astounding discovery. We haven't built a REALLY new design in the last 50 years. Everything we have today, they had before. Our forebears are the guys who developed these craft. We are standing, today, on the shoulders of giants.

Our big advantages today include, but are not limited to: design of consistent specifications, better materials, quicker build time, stronger hulls due to better materials, and cheaper beer.

Maybe, uplift bras oughta be in that list too?