Stitch and Glue Guideboat

Post by **jem** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:36 am

A couple years ago, I became interested in designing a stitch and glue guideboat.

I had started a design like this some time ago but was never satisfied with the result. If I'm going to do it, I want to get as close as I can to an authentic guideboat.

When I started the guideboat project, I bought this book:

http://michneboat.com/Book%20Info.htm . I've kept in touch with the author, John Michne, and he even autographed my copy. It's a great read even if a guideboat isn't your cup of tea.

John gave me permission to use his book as a guide to design a S&G version of a guideboat. His book is based on the guideboat, built by Dwight Grant of Booneville, NY starting in 1905. This model was later named the "Virginia".

Anyway...

I'm about midway through drawing the guideboat on my computer and will use it to create a stitch and glue version. Guidboats are a very rounded hull. To duplicate the look and performance, multi chines will be needed.

For you potential builders who might want want to take on this project, how many hull panels would you like to see? I sketched an 8-panel (4 per side) version that looks respectable, but 10 would really do the job well.

Opinions?

Kayak Jack · Post by **Kayak Jack** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:23 pm

The only shape prettier than a wooden boat is a woman. Since they don't carry camp gear into the outback well, guide boats were invented. (ahem)

Ten panels will obviously do the job better. Eight would be simpler. Perhaps two versions of the same boat? Variations on a theme.

You didn't ask for this, but you did ask for opinions. I, personally, would raise the sides. Say a top panel, with tumble home. Say, 2" higher in the center, tapering to nothing near the ends? Just my 2 cents.

I raised the sides like this on the Katie Bug and am VERY glad I did. That little 13 footer carries my 210 pounds, 50 pound Katie, and our gear and food for a week with ease.

hairymick · Post by **hairymick** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:33 pm

Matt,

Guideboats are completely unheard of here. What type of waters are they intended for? What is your proposed lengh - beam etc?

From just looking at those two magnificent boats, I am guessing they are mainly rowing canoes?

My suggestion would be to keep as close to the original form aspossible. At least 10 panels, possibly more.

As you have probably guessed, I have been looking for a really nice rowing boat for some time. None of the plans that I have seen have been quite what I wanted. Now, something like this might be just the ticket. Not sure yet. I have never seen boats like these but I really like where this is going.

Post by **jem** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:53 pm

Kayak Jack wrote:The only shape prettier than a wooden boat is a woman. Since they don't carry camp gear into the outback well, guide boats were invented. (ahem)

Ten panels will obviously do the job better. Eight would be simpler. Perhaps two versions of the same boat? Variations on a theme.

You didn't ask for this, but you did ask for opinions. I, personally, would raise the sides. Say a top panel, with tumble home. Say, 2" higher in the center, tapering to nothing near the ends? Just my 2 cents.

I raised the sides like this on the Katie Bug and am VERY glad I did. That little 13 footer carries my 210 pounds, 50 pound Katie, and our gear and food for a week with ease.

Multi versions a nice concept but one must go first.

There are changes I'd like to make to the design as well but I want this one to be true to form.

Post by **jem** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:01 pm

hairymick wrote:Matt,

Guideboats are completely unheard of here. What type of waters are they intended for? What is your proposed lengh - beam etc?

From just looking at those two magnificent boats, I am guessing they are mainly rowing canoes?

My suggestion would be to keep as close to the original form aspossible. At least 10 panels, possibly more.

As you have probably guessed, I have been looking for a really nice rowing boat for some time. None of the plans that I have seen have been quite what I wanted. Now, something like this might be just the ticket. Not sure yet. I have never seen boats like these but I really like where this is going.

Mick,

The Adirondack Guideboat has a great history behind it. I could try and attempt to explain it but I wouldn't do it justice.

Some good sites:

http://secretwater.com/
http://adirondackguideboat.com/history.html

As Jack eluded to, the Guideboat was a very specialized craft. Many paddlers and rowers today would say the sides are too low and the ends are too high. But these boat were made for a specialized task.

With the right person, they were extremely sea worthy craft. As you can guess, like any other craft, there are purest. Here's a perspective saying a Guideboat is better than a canoe:

http://www.adirondack-guide-boat.com/canoes.html

That opinion is a combination of marketing and inexperienced paddlers.

Anyway, that's a taste of the history.

If I were to design one for more general purpose use, I'd raise the side a bit and lower the ends a bit. Maybe not have the ends not be quite as "hollowed" out. But other than that, try to keep the same sweeping lines.

hairymick · Post by **hairymick** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:25 pm

Thanks for the links Matt.

I will study them more closely when I get the time.

Re raising the sides. I am inclined to disagree. The gracefull lines of this boat will appeal to many in my humble opinion. Likewise, the beautiful fine entry at the ends. These things were designed into the boat for reasons. I would recommend sticking as close to the original as possible, with, perhaps an option for an extra panel on top just for those who want it.

This boat will have immense load capacity as it is, The fine entry will promote a drier ride through chop and river waves and the much fuller sections toward the middle of the boat will provide plenty of lift to get the bows up and above the wave tops.

You know the market you are trying to reach with this one and I am only speaking about what I would prefer but I am thinking that this boat is not targeted at the builders who are thinking about their first build. More likely, to people who have specific rivers/trips in mind or to those who remember seeing these classic lines in the "Old Days" and are looking to build something a little more traditional?

Post by **jem** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:41 pm

"More traditional" is exactly the target client. I'll probably sell this via Duckworks like the other row boat I sell through them.

Like I said, the first version will be as close as the Grant Guideboat.

coogzilla · Post by **coogzilla** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:26 am

Go for it Matt. I'll buy the plans.
Had a nice little flu, so not much done on the pirogue.
10 would be ok. She sure is a looker.

Coogs

Kayak Jack · Post by **Kayak Jack** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:59 am

Might just be my sleepy eyes this time of night but ... if they were lapstrake, and were longer, and had a dragon's head up from the bow - they would be Viking ships.

And, I'd rather paddle them with a double ender than row them. Just me, I guess.

_AL_ · Post by **_AL_** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:59 am

Matt,
They aren't something that I would build but very beautiful all the same.

I don't think anyone here will argue when I say your boat designs are second to none.
Design it the way YOU think it should be & it'll be a winner.

Al